再说说支出。与一个小公司相似，中央政府和地方政府要支付公民的社会福利，比如养老、医疗、教育、住房保障等。政府同时还要将钱用到国防、基础设施和赈灾等项目上。由于政府还参与各种经营与投资活动，这就会有生产成本和亏损的钱。除此之外，中央政府还要将一部分税收收入返还给地方政府并有时直接给予地方政府资金，这在中国叫作“转移支付”。

In terms of expenditures, similar to a small company, both the central government and local governments pay for citizens' social benefits, like pension and health care, education and affordable housing. Governments also spend money on items such as national defense, infrastructure and disaster relief. Since governments take part in various businesses and investments, they also have production costs and losses. Apart from all these items, the central government returns part of its tax revenue to local governments and also directly pays them a certain amount of money, which in China is known as a "transfer payment".

但是中国现行的预算体制存在什么问题呢？在多大程度上，《预算法》草案能够达到公众的预期？我们在演播室电话采访了王雍君，他是人大立法者的顾问之一。

But what problems does China's current budget system present? To what extent will the draft amendment meet the public's expectations? We called Wang Yongjun from our studio. He is another consultant to the NPC's lawmakers.

冯欣：王教授，我听到一些学者把《预算法》叫作“亚宪法”，为什么这么叫呢？

Feng Xin: Professor Wang, I heard some scholars call the Budget Law a "sub-constitution". Why is that?

王雍君：首先是因为《预算法》所处理的问题事关全体纳税人的整体利益，也事关政府的摄政能力和执政党的执政能力。很少有哪部法律，应该说是没有其他任何法律涉及的问题如此重大。在中国，《预算法》是唯一一部有关公款、如何管理公款这样高度综合和集成的法律，那么就这一点而言，它的地位其他法律是无法相提并论的。

Wang Yongjun: First of all, this is because the Budget Law deals with affairs that are related to all taxpayers as a whole. It's also related to the government and the ruling party's governance. Rarely are there any laws – in fact, no other laws – that deal with issues as important as this. In China, Budget Law is the only comprehensive law that regulates public funds. As far as this, the status of the law can't be matched by other laws.

冯欣：我听到一些学者说，制定《预算法》的目的之一，是来确保政府的收支行为是规范的，那么这里“规范”的含义是什么？政府怎样的收支行为才算是规范的？

Feng Xin: I heard some scholars say one of the purposes of making the Budget Law is to discipline the government's revenue and spending behaviors. What does the word “discipline” mean here? What kind of government behaviors can be seen as disciplined?

王雍君：我不认为这个词非常好地表达了《预算法》的法理，如果我们要比较严格和准确地表达，所谓“规范”应该做这样的理解，那就是在民主社会里，行政部门处置公款的行为，必须得到立法机关的授权，并且处于立法机关的时时监控之下。我们只有从这个意义上去理解“规范”，那么规范这个词才能表述到位。

Wang Yongjun: I don't really think this word describes the legal principle of the Budget Law well. If we are going to rigorously and accurately describe such an idea, "discipline" means that in a democratic society, all government's uses of public funds have to be authorized and constantly monitored by the legislature. Only in this way can we define the word properly.

冯欣：那我们怎样做才能确保公款的安全呢？

Feng Xin: And what can we do to make sure public funds are safe?

王雍君：公款的安全和妥善的管理，主要取决于三道基本的防火墙。第一道就是公款的处置必须获得立法机关的授权，必须报告立法机关，经立法机关审查，通过立法机关批准才能获得合法性，这是第一道。如果我们说公款的处置立法机关都不知情，更不能审查，也没有批准的程序，那么我们说公款将很可能是不安全的。

Wang Yongjun: The safety of public funds mainly depends on three basic firewalls. The first firewall is that the government has to get authorization from the legislature, report to it and be examined by it, in order to use public funds. Only through the legislature can the government get legitimacy. If the legislature has no way to know how the government uses public funds, examine (the usage) or prove them, we can then say the public funds are very unsafe.

第二道防火墙就是所有的公款都应该存放在央行的国库单一账户上，中间不能停留在商业银行，不能经过商业银行过渡。所有的公款都应该从国库单一账户直达政府的供应商，中间也不能在商业银行过渡。只有这样做，所有的公款才能得到最有效的、最便利的、最动态的监督。最安全是因为公款它存放在央行，央行是一个监管机构，它不是盈利机构。央行在中国还是政府的银行，它是对政府负责。而商业银行是盈利性的机构，你的钱存在它的账户上，它就要去发放贷款，发放贷款发生损失了怎么办？那么现在我们这个体制下，财政部门在商业银行开设了大量的、应该是超过二十万个财政专户。这些专户每天、每个月、每年都有大量的资金流进流出，也就是说纳税人的很多钱在现在这个体制下，有相当大的部分，至少超过30%，现在已经脱离国库的监督范围和监督能力，是在国库之外运作的。

The second firewall is that all public funds should be saved in the central bank's Treasury Single Account (TSA). They shouldn't stay in or be transacted through commercial banks. Also, all public funds should go directly to the government's service providers. They should not go through commercial banks, either. Only by doing so can we monitor public funds most easily and constantly. The central bank is a safe place, because it's an administrative organization rather than a commercial one. In China, the central bank is the government's bank. It's responsible to the government. Commercial banks, however, are for-profit organizations. Once your money is deposited in a commercial bank, it will offer loans. What if it has losses? In our current system, the financial departments have opened an enormous number of accounts in commercial banks, probably more than 200,000 accounts. Every day, large amounts of money flow into and out of these accounts. That is to say, more than 30 percent of taxpayers' money has actually gone out of the treasury's monitoring and administration. the treasury's monitoring and administration.

第三道防火墙是所有的银行账户，应该叫政府银行账户，资金流进流出，以及余额都必须向立法机关报告。我们现在《预算法》二审稿里也没有规定必须报告，这是非常奇怪的一件事。